If the whole is equal to the sum of its parts than our "whole" cannot be reached until our parts are gathered and acknowledged. This blog will act as a collection, a gallery that records our “parts and particles” (our particulars) in an effort to connect the dots; to endlessly connect the dots.
Tuesday, August 10, 2010
8/10 blog session
Geert Wilders made a short political film called Fitna; it exposes his view of the religion of Islam. It's only seventeen minutes in lenght, but it attempts to demonstrate that the Qur'an motivates its followers to hate, encourage terrorism, antisemitism, violence aganset women and sugjugation of infidels.
In response to the movie, many people in the Netherlands (where the movie focused its attention to--Muslims in the Netherlands--and where Wilders is from) created online videos. The attempt was to "block" people from watching Wilders film, which was distributed online. When you would search for Fitna or Wilders, you would find these "apology" videos from the people of Netherlands instead of the film itself.
Here is their intention statement: Why? Well we can't stop Wilders. He has a right to freedom of expression and he is smart enough to stay within the boundaries of Dutch law. Actually, we do not want to stop his movie because we cherish our freedom of expression. Even stupid populist politicians have fundamental rights. Especially they!
We can compete for attention however. And we can produce disinformation. So we are going to make Movies called “Fitna” in which we apologise for Geert Wilders embarrassing behaviour. We will make so many of them that it will be hard to find the movie by Wilders without finding lots of movies apologising for it.
Just to let the world (and ourselves) know that allowing confused people to speak does not mean that we agree with what they say. Sorry.
1. What does Fitna mean in Arabic? Why is this meaning important to know before understanding the issue?
2. What do you think about this initiative?
3. How is this movie different from an episode of South Park making fun of a religious group (which they do all the time)?
4. Is there anything to be said for the idea that Wilders is "investigating" Islam, has a right to free speech, or as views that should be put out there and discussed?
5. Theo van Gough is another Dutch film-maker who made a movie that was critical of Islam, he was murdered and there were notes left on his body, by the murderers, threatening Western countries. His murder caused Wilders to say, "The Netherlands has been too tolerant to intolerant people for too long. We should not import a retarded political Islamic society to our country." How does this story change your perspective of Wilder's story? Does it?
6. These are points of conversation, your role is to consider these events, apply them to our texts, and think about what your texts show you about TOLERANCE, DIVERSITY, PUNISHMENT, FREEDOM, and OTHER ISSUES--there are a ton--THAT THIS BRINGS UP. Does your book show you anything that you think our country should "apologize" for?
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if you are interested in reading more, this is an interesting view that might question the "apology videos": http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-harris/losing-our-spines-to-save_b_100132.html
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Theo van Gough was killed for similar reason, and trying to apologize for Wilder's actions...it makes me wonder if they are "hiding" something. Why would they be so defensive and even take it to the point of murder to prove a point. I mean it could be because they truly feel as if they have been steryotyped and judged, but at the same time it's hard to wonder why they are acting like they have in response to this.
ReplyDeleteI guess this fits in with #4, because i feel as if Wilder was investigating, and what I stated above examplifies why it seems so "shady" of them to act like this and act previous to this to Theo van Gough. Are my thoughts clear to anyone?
ReplyDelete^^by they I meant the Islamic fundamentalists...
ReplyDeleteWhere I am from we are facing a form of fitna. the Sunnis and the Shiites cause civil unrest by attacking one another in public places.
ReplyDeleteEvery country has do0ne things that they can apologize to the world for. Some are worse than others but NO country should be forced to apologize thats absurd. If some United States citizens want to apologize to the rest of the world for things we have done they have every right to do so. Although now that our congress has passed the cyber security bill our government will probably just delete them if they wanted to (different issue not going to get into it).
I think it is kind of cool that people are standing up for the positive aspects of their country and are demonstrating tolerance. But Wilder has just as much of a right to make FITNA just as the others have a right to make their apologies. PEOPLE ARE FREE TO AGREE AND DISAGREE. and we as humans should have a basic human right to express ourselves.
In Dearborn MI the word fitna is a slang term for if things are getting crazy at a party, or when a group of friends had a really wild night full of drama and scandle. No white people use that word but I hear it amognst my arabic friends every once in a while.
In persepolis their is FITNA all the time! never any civil rest, never peace. Always wars and power shifts. So there is fitna in Iranian society throughout the whole story.
"disagreement and division among people" or a "test of faith in times of trial".
ReplyDeletealso, reguarding the first question... i found this and It basically seems as if Fitna is associated with something bad or sinfull. This makes me realize why he named it this because he was trying to express how he felt Islam is affiliated with "bad things".
ReplyDeletehttp://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080407092120AAuipce
#3.
ReplyDeleteI think this can be compaired to South Park in the way that they are expressing their views on popculture in a way other than complaining. As artist, they are expressing themselves in both situations, this filmmaker and Trey/Matt (South Park).
This is a quote from the article Chris posted:
ReplyDelete"The position of the Muslim community in the face of all provocations seems to be: Islam is a religion of peace, and if you say that it isn't, we will kill you."
Im attempting to relate this to the murder of Theo van Gough. If he was murdered for being "critical of Islam" why is the Islamic community completely contradicting themselves?
The death of Theo van Gough is pretty intereting too me. I think that the way he died due to the apology and such are pretty different
ReplyDelete-----------------------------------------------
I think apology videos are dumb.
I hate public apologies, just because it takes so much emotion out of it.
Someone else could have worte your apology - or you can be very good at acting. I think that the inititive that had been taken on by the guys doing these public apologies.
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Will finish blog tonight.
Fitna means to seduce or tempt. It’s important to know because you can see that he’s trying to stand up for his people by making this video informing people that the Muslim people in the Netherlands have gotten away with things for too long and that something must be done.
ReplyDeleteI think it’s good for him to stand up for his people, but I think he took it a little too far. He was very selfless but he went about it the wrong way because he attacked the Muslim religion. You shouldn’t attack people’s religion because I believe that’s morally wrong.
The apologies were good because it seems like a step toward peace, between two peoples. Hopefully they will work out their problems.
i believe that they are only apologizing because it will make their country look like impathetic. If it didnt go global none of them would have been apologizing.
ReplyDeleteI think the idea of freedom of speech is contextual but very broad, and should be revoked only under specific circumstaces that include inciting illegal behavior. Still, what actions from speech can be defined as wrong, what if it's just cause? The frames of what constitutes are very wide so I feel that Wilders fits into a slot of legality even though it may be wrong in a lot of ways. This freedom shouldn't be curbed, even though politically incorrect, because it's an unalienable right. If discarded, what restrictions would come next, would that grow? And to answer 5, thats total hypocrisy
ReplyDeleteInteresting "beginning of ideas" but this goes back a bit to practicing "following directions." A few of you seem confused about who is apologizing, why they are apologizing, and why Theo Van Gough was killed. You have the computer in front of you--research a bit. Ask questions on the blog. Discuss this subject so that you UNDERSTAND the context.
ReplyDeleteOnce you work this out in your head, apply it to your text. You all have a pattern of WRITING AS REACTION, but we are asking you to WRITE AS A WAY OF THINKING THROUGH A SUBJECT.
Here's the issue: The Netherlands are experiencing diversity and some people are not tolerant of this diversity. There has been violence and cases of fundamentalism and extremism in the Netherlands--should they be tolerant of fundamentalists? Is it appropriate to investigate and interrogate a group of people? Is the way this filmmaker did it--by using the Qur'an and focusing only on hatred--acceptable? What do you find out about the film when you research it?
SLOW DOWN and think about this issue. It's applicable to both texts in terms of ETHICS OF REPRESENTATION, FREEDOMS AND RESTRAINTS, and TOLERANCE. I'm sure there are other connections, but you guys need to slow down, minimize simple reactions, and think about why this is something you are being asked to consider.
this is honestly a righteous cuase... at first the videos seem silly and point less but the overall agenda is quite astounding. they are trying to make so many videos that the original negative videos cant be found. i understand this concept and its quite brilliant
ReplyDeletei feel that it is more than just this wilders guy who feels that there should be any diversity in the netherlands. This brings me back to around the time of the civil rights time when the KKK felt that there shouldnt be intergration in states. So in response the killed and created rules to limit African Americans from making as much effort as possible. I see this happening in the netherlands now. The only difference is that the people from the netherlands are apologizing because for what this man has said because they dont want to be viewed as racist or intollerant. This is probably not how they really feel becasue they are making a mockery of apologizing. I thought that when some one apologizes they have to be sympathetic toward the issue. Maybe its just me but this does not seem as if they are true to thier words.
ReplyDelete"Fitna" is defined as disagreement. Geert Wilders should be allowed to make a movie about anything that he wants. If the islamic community is that upset, they should make a video about his culture to get back at him.
ReplyDeleteI think that Geert doing this was wrong he should have never gotten in between the whole situation with them killing Theo van Gough.. yea what they did was wrong be he has not right to go and stoop down to their level.
ReplyDeleteI think that with everyone saying sorry for what he did is kind of funny.. but i think that the person that should be saying sorry is Geert not theses people who have nothing to do with what he did.
In true notebooks, there also seems to be a battle between fundamentalists and extremists.
ReplyDeleteThe guards that are strict, and don't think the program is necessary would fundamentalist. They think that the inmates should stick to the original belief of a strict sytem.
On the other hand, the other guards and teachers that are trying break from the fundamentalists views would be extremisits. They're seen as going against "standard morals".
I might not be making sense...
hannah i see what you are saying and yes you make alot of sense. It seems that in history, eveytime a group of people stand up for new ideas they are always seen as extreme or radicals. Its is people like that that start unnecessarry wars happen.
ReplyDeleteWhy did Wilders make a video to make fun of Islam? That seems wrong. You can't just make fun of religion. It would turn people away from the religion and people should have the free choice of religion.
ReplyDeleteWilders made this because he was trying to prove that the Muslim community in the Nertherlands were responsible for murdering Theo Van Gough. He wanted people to see that maybe they are getting the wrong messages from the religion.
I notice that I contradicted myself: I said he didn't have the right to trash a religion, but he had reasons to do what he did. Members of the Islamic community murdered Theo Van Gough and they didn't have the right to murder anyone so once someone violates a right, someone else can come back and make anything they want to.
Freedom of speech should not be revoked because people should have the right to say whatever they want; it doesn't have to be politically correct all the time and people need to say what they feel. So that means people can talk about other people's religions. I am thinking about how the media trashes religions all the time: The media discusses Louis Farrahkan, they say he says comments that are a little to harsh about other people's religions--like Christianity. He says Christianity is misguided; he tries to back up his own statements, but the media misconstrues his statements so that it sounds worse than the statement is.
As a flimmaker, it bothers me to see people shutting his film down. As an artist he is allowed to express his views, and as people the islamic community is allowed to have a reaction. What ever their reaction is, is what makes this film relavent as art.
ReplyDeleteFitna MEANS: disagreement and division among people or a test of faith in times of trial.
ReplyDeletewhen doing research about the film Fitna - i saw read how it appeared the film was attempting to show that the Quarn motivates muslims to hate all who violate islamic teachings. In high school - I attending a school with a huge poopulation of the islamic culture and people who followed the muslim religion. Too me - i kind of agree with the quarn telling people to hate people who violate the culture, just because i have experienced things like that in school being a bystander.
Now, I DO NOT AGREE WITH the film director when says the islamic culture encourages the following: terrorishm, antismitism, violence against women, and a bunch more ethic issues.
I think that they film director wasn't a stupid guy. He did his research - when using the word Fitna to title his film, was a pretty good choice of a word. He definitly wasn't a dumb guy.
ReplyDeletei agree with brittany... althought the intentions are good this could be potentially dangerous
ReplyDeleteHannah, some of the guards seem to be against the inmates having a chance to write and express their feelings, they beleive that they should be held in a cell and regret what they did. The guards think that, if you give them an outlet, the prisoners might think that what they did was okay. I agree that the guards are fundamentalists because they think the prisoners should always be in their cells.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the guards and teachers are extremists because they are trying to break the prisoners away from their cells for a little while to give them an outlet to express their feelings; and that goes against what the guards are trying to do. And most prisons don't allow a writing session for the prisoners to express their feelings. But, they are not violating moral standards--they are violating normal prison standards.
Watching the actual film, you can see how deeply Geert Wilders felt about this cause- while on the other hand how lightly the youtube videos are being presented. In Fitna,Wilders chose certain clips and images in order to get his point across. The way the videos from other people from the Netherlands seems ridiculous, when compared side by side. He meant for this to stick into your mind and make you realize...Hey people look what is happening here, what can we do? Yes it may have been harsh and only represented HIS personal point of view, but at the same time it does get you to think. It clearly made the people on youtube think. It just seems weird to me that they wanted to apologize so badly and show that they are not on the same boat as Wilders, but they chose to do it in such a way that made ME feel somewhat "dumb" after watching.
ReplyDeleteSorry if this doesnt make sense to anyone.
If gert was to say sorry, would it really be genuine?
ReplyDeleteI'd rather see a bunch of silly videos, representing embarassment and honestly apologizing on Wilders behalf. I don't think that he should be forced to apologize. What he said obviously had a lot of meaning, and intended on insulting muslims and their beliefs.
So if he did apologize for what he did, it wouldn't be truthful.
Sierra, it sounds like you are saying that the Qur'An is right to tell people to hate other people that don't agree with the religion. Is this what you are saying?
ReplyDeleteOf course it's dangerous guys; it's in direct response to Muslim violence in the Netherlands. And Mr. Wilders here isn't "stooping to their level"; that would mean becoming violent himself. He's is attempting to showcase his view about a very somber and important idea. It is an opinion piece that has a strong basis in fact and evidence. However, it is still an opinion piece.
ReplyDeleteMike, you began an interesting thought about how you agree with shutting the film down. What do you thinking about the methods of shutting the film down with the apology videos? Is that not a clever way to go about that? Is it any different from a picket line? How do you feel about the humor used in this tactic when the topic itself is incredibly dark?
Geert Wilders is also currently making a sequel to his film. This means that the protesting of his film, cultural shunning of him by his home country, and probable death wishes brought against him have not stopped Mr. Wilders in his "mission". What does that say about the issue's importance? What do you think the response from the Netherlands will be the second time around? What will the reaction be from the Muslim community?
Also, it would be interesting to see if this video and the actions surrounding it have had any tangible effect on violence or terrorism in the Netherlands as a whole. Do you think there would be any change? What does that say about the purpose and execution of the film and its message?
What I meant was - if someone is a muslim and wears a hajob and they see a muslim that doesn't they talk bad abou thtem and has even had the audacity to judge them and act cruel to them. I am not saying it is right -i am saying that some people take thier religious views really seriously.
ReplyDeleteClarence, you're definitely right. My examples for the words are a little off, I was just trying to get my point across(my thougts out) as easy as possible.
ReplyDeleteim pretty sure that video was made with the intent the brings forth "the light" as gert sees it.. i dont think there will be any apologizing from his corner of this boxing match
ReplyDeletepeople are judged everyday throught all types of media, we see it in news, viedeos, movies, music, so why judge him on his beliefs. yes! it was wrong, but that gives no one any room to judge him.
ReplyDeletethe Arabic word fitna means tempation or trial; sedition; social unrest or civil war. it's important to know because,it deal with what happens in a Arabic country. i can connect the word to the text persepolis, and how the characters are living through a civil war.also, everyone isnt treated equal and have to follow certains rules. and those who try to fight for their rights gets either punish or killed.
ReplyDeletei feel that what Wilders was trying to expose to expose how bad things are, but he did it in the wrong way. it's true that he has freedom of speech, but there a time and a place for things. it would of been better if he would of did it in a more respectful matter.
I don't know much about this subject, but I do not agree with what happened to Theo Van Gough , this overall is morally wrong. I am Muslim so I can relate to the the stereotypical Islamic terrorist, although I'm not one . I believe in consequences for all wrong doing. The thing about the whole Wilder video, he made it seem like the whole Islamic culture is to be blamed for what was done to Theo. It was wrong, but at the same time IT IS NOT ALL MUSLIMS. Some Muslims do take the Qur'an as law. Geert Wilder is taking things too far. I did research and found that he is trying to close off any immigration for any Muslims. Why try to punish everyone in the Islamic culture, when they all aren't involved.
ReplyDelete