" Guilty by association"
How does this phrase relate to your novel?
If the whole is equal to the sum of its parts than our "whole" cannot be reached until our parts are gathered and acknowledged. This blog will act as a collection, a gallery that records our “parts and particles” (our particulars) in an effort to connect the dots; to endlessly connect the dots.
This phrase relates due to the fact that in true notebooks, the boys are already looked down upon as criminals for the rest of their lives. wheteher they change their lives around or not they are going to be looked upon as guilty no matter who they are around. Even if they had no knowledge of the crime people will speculate that it was them due to their record.
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of how stereotypes are made. It goes back to you are you hang out with.
ReplyDeleteFor me Persepolis shows the reason why all Muslims are associated with terrorism. The acts of terror Marjane the main character in my novel, her government forces upon Iran. This is all we see here in America and we base what we see and previous experiences with all Muslims and that’s not how it is all.
But Adilla, the protagonist is a Muslim and not a terrorist. Doesn't that say something different about the stereotype? Why do you think this idea of terrorism trumps any positive interpretation of the text? Is it truly "innocent until proven guilty?"
ReplyDeleteThe prisoners in True Notebooks may have friends that can be labeled as "guilty by association". The prisoners could be gang members and have friends that aren't associated with gangs but get labeled as gang members because they are friends with them. It’s something similar to being labeled as homosexual or bisexual just because that person associates with homosexuals. It’s like people assume that you are doing whatever it is that the people you associate with are doing therefore you are “guilty by association”.
ReplyDeleteI kinda went outside of the book but basically if you associate yourself with anything negative, or thats seen as negative, you will be immediately labeled and put into that same category as whoever is "guilty".
ReplyDeleteEVERYONE assumes that you are exactly like your friends and your family. Many older people view our generation has one collectively technologically advanced group. Which we are, but they automatically think we all listen to rap, we all text while driving, and we all are naive. Many "cliques" see how one person is in the group, judge them, and allow that one person to set them off from anyone else in the group. It is ridiculous how this happens. From a personal standpoint, my friend has tattoos covering his body, all over. We entered a store and all you could feel was the glare the clerk was giving us. We did not ever attempt to steal anything or act suspicious, it was all because of his covered body. Thankfully now tattoos* have adapted to being more than just what criminals have. But there are still many people who still associate them with "bad people" (?) What I am saying is that I wish people viewed you as your own person, and not as a whole from your peers and family. In True Notebooks, you know how they get stereotyped because of the jumpsuit they have to wear, the haircuts they possess, and the tattoos* they have on their bodies.
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of my book true notebooks bc they could not done anything bad but one person that was with them did it so they all got in trouble.
ReplyDeletethis reminds me when i was in high school and i was at a party and everyone was drinking but me and the police came and gave everyone drinking tickets and for me just being there the police took my name down and gave it to the school and i wasnt able to cheer at 2 games just bc i was there.
In high school - we studied Association Fallacies. There are two: Honored by Association and Guilty by Association.
ReplyDeleteI feel that the phrase of "Guilty by Association" connects to the book TRUE NOTEBOOKS by the idea of crime. To think about the phrase in a complex way and tieing it to crime - I would say there are many ways you can get in legal trouble especially as a juvenile by associating yourself with people who doing illegal things. Like, someone could end up in a Juvenile Dentention Center for not being a gang member but just be in the car with a group of gang members that the driver does a drug deal. That person not doing anything can get a drug charge as well.
I don't know if that makes sense at all.
asumption and stereotypes gives the statement guilty by association truth that and that alone is the very reason it exsist at all
ReplyDeletethe characters in true notebooks can relate to the phrase, because many of them where hanging with the wrong people. plus, the people that you hang with might want you to commit crimes for them; thats how it started for the characters in true notebooks, by commiting crimes for other people or being associated with people that was doing the crime.
ReplyDeleteI’m not saying That Marjane is a part of the stereotypes I'm just saying that this is how I feel people might see all Muslims because of the negative things that SOME Muslims commit.
ReplyDeleteWhat I’m trying to say is that not everyone in the world is able to read and have discussions about another perspective like Persepolis. So their mind set is already made up and they use the media as their only source of knowledge about this specific subject and base stereotypes off just that.
At Jeff, what do you mean by “innocent until proven guilty”? because in my opinion it’s the other way around.
In America, criminal policy is "innocent until proven guilty." That's the way our judicial system works. Is this true of our stereotypes? Of our social interactions with each other? Why does this encompassing rule that runs as a common vein throughout our government conduct and courtroom legislation stop short of our social outlook? Why do you think it's the other way around?
ReplyDeleteI am really interested in the "honored by association" idea. The reverse that Sierra brings up seems like food for a really good paper.
ReplyDeleteI've been thinking about this a lot too lately--why does that woman have to be a nun? Why is it that the only person who speaks up for the boys in True Notebooks is a nun? I just think it's so "obvious." It makes me doubt Mark as an honest writer for some reason. And Mark too, is he "better" because he teaches inmates than a teacher who teaches "just students"? I think we sort of like him more because he does that and I wonder why that "honor" is given to him.
This was a bit of a tangent, but honor by association seems like part of our texts too. Marjane is proud to be associated with her uncle, Marjane's mother struggles to be associated with her own image after a picture is taken, the whole text seems to be playing with "associative" studies.
Jeff's questions are rockin'! I think the "judge and jury" in society is pervasive. We all look at each other and "assume" one thing or another. Let's also consider how this effects groups of people and not just individuals. Bill Cosby is pretty vocal about a certain type of young, black male and he "lumps" together a lot of people who may "fit" that category, but not his definition of it. How is he acting as judge and who is the jury?